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Jonson, its like you are chumming the waters.
Try harder, Mr Nelson.
As in, feel free to find something genuinely troubling about Obama from a legitimate news source, more than just “you writing someone’s name in a blog comment.”
What would be particularly awesome would be you refuting any of the points in the graphic above instead of trying to switch the topic like you just did. But sadly I doubt that can be done in a manner that keeps the conversation civil (on both sides, we’re all guilty of this).
Oh, and to be clear, Chuck, when links appear here, it’s an automatic feature of the bookmarking system @ delicious.com – I usually bookmark stuff via delicious that I want to reference later if I’m having a related conversation, etc. I’m not picking fights or instigating – I’d be fine if the political links went completely ignored.
Okay…Certainly…I am pro-life, but in the case of fathering a child of rape, whether it be from a parent or someone else; to expect that woman to carry a child in that manner? That is where I differ from Sarah Palin, and the ultra-right. Do I believe that most abortions in this nation occur due to rape and/or incest? No. I believe most occur because someone fucked up and having a baby would be an inconvenience. That is where I draw my line.
I think it is also interesting that the only reason a woman should support a woman candidate is here willingness to choose to kill her own child. I do believe that there are women who will vote on more than one issue. If I’m wrong, please let me know.
If Obama is 100% pro-choice, then he should have the courage to say so; I believe his “above my paygrade” comment was characteristic of his stance on just about everything. I believe he has not been bi-partisan, and he does not have his name on any legislation, unlike John McCain. McCain/Kennedy & McCain/Feingold do show that McCain is willing to work with both sides, and I believe he will continue to do so. I don’t believe Barack Obama has the fortitude to work with the Republican party to pass any legislation.
There are a number of reasons I don’t support Obama for president, and I would be happy to share them in a civilized manner.
Back to your original post; I don’t think that flow-chart is an actual flow-chart from the McCain/Palin campaign, but that is just a hunch.
This is precious, Mr. Nelson. You draw your “line” for women who “fucked up” and for whom the life-long care of another human being would be an “inconvenience.” Did you draw this line based on your experience (moniker aside) as a single woman under the age of 25 faced with one of the most difficult decisions known to human kind? Or was it your preacher who anointed you as arbiter of the fate of these young women? People like you amaze me. What in the world gives you the right to be the judge of such a profoundly difficult and painful decision?
And lets take this a bit further. You scoff at women who make this “convenience” decision, but in the next breath, you decry gov’t-funded social support for these women and their children as socialism. Even better, your ilk prefers to ignore and miseducate young people about the prevention of unwanted pregnancies based on the complete idiocy of abstinence-only education. Compassionate conservatism at its best. George Orwell would be proud.
I guess I am a single-issue voter: If you are ignorant, you don’t deserve to lead.
I’m sorry Chuck, apparently I forgot I am not allowed to have opinions and beliefs different from yours.
And please, which breath did I “decry gov’t-funded social support for these women and children”?
Let’s remember, and even YOU state it: the “Life-long care of another HUMAN BEING”.
Because I have a different set of beliefs, does not make me ignorant. It just makes me have a different set of beliefs.
I’m sure now that this link has gone “angrily political”, Jonson will be closing comments. We will agree to disagree, and I thank you for your passion Chuck, and the fact that YOU believe I am what is wrong with the world. I choose to stick to the issue and not attack you personally. If a liberal is offended by me, then I must be doing something right.
Well, before that happens, I want to say the jonsonblog is awesome.
The defense rests.
Mr. Nelson I absolutely believe you have the right to your own opinion and beliefs, however I draw the line at where you want me to live by them.
I’m with Chuck.
Apparently “my line” is getting blown out of proportion. When I stated “my line”, it has NOTHING to do with how I think others should live. My line is a place where I debate whether an abortion is for reasons other than rape, or a life threatening medical situation.
So, missus, (and I KNOW who you are), I have no expectation of YOU living how I want you to. I haven’t any say in that at all. I am pro-life and an advocate for that belief; but it is mine, and you are free to choose otherwise. I am not here to offend anyone, nor do any name calling.
We will leave that up to Chuck 🙂
The problem Mr. Nelson, is that McCain/Palin would expect me to live by their beliefs – they would seek to overturn Roe v. Wade.
And Barack Obama wants to tax what I have worked my butt off to earn. Which I use to take care of my wife and kids. Not to mention what will happen to my clients.
Don’t be such a sissy, Nelson. 😉 I said that ignorant folk don’t deserve to lead – an obvious reference to Palin-types and their “no exceptions for rape / incest / alien abduction” policy for abortion.
Abortion and religion are issues that, in my limited experience, can’t be argued to a conclusion. We state our opinions and spit some venom; then we vote. With that said, I think it is a non-controversial fact that women have a greater vested interest in the abortion debate than dudes; neither you or I will have the independent control over our own bodies curtailed if our “side” doesn’t prevail. For that reason alone, its grating to hear sanctimonious men talk about abortion as if they really have a horse in the race.
On the flipside, maybe each abortion that takes place in America is a painful experience for you in some spiritual or theoretical sense. Its just tough to imagine that being your motivation…
Gee Chuck, then what WOULD be my motivation? From what it sounds like, you don’t know me at all!
I don’t presume to know what makes you tick, DO NOT presume to know what makes ME!
You got that right. I don’t know you from a hole in the wall, except for the acidic, right-wing comments you make in this little corner of the inter-tubes. It also seems that you get a bit prickly when pressed to defend your comments; as I am a bit childish, its making me all tingly inside.
Next up, I’d love to hear how same-sex marriage truly assaults you and your way of life. How about the danger posed by gays in combat or, God forbid, the Cub Scouts? Yes, I am presuming to know your position on these fun issues, but I don’t think its a stretch that you probably will be voting YES on Prop 8.
And no, sir, thank YOU.
I’m certain there was a way to respectfully discuss this issue.
Mr. Nelson, you portray abortion as killing a child, yet I don’t remember ever seeing any public funerals after miscarriages (especially as women can often miscarry in the first few weeks of pregnancy and never know it) or abortions. If it’s a fact that a fetus is a human being, rather than a belief, why aren’t death certificates issued for them?
We have to make a determination: do the fetus’ rights trump the mother’s, or do the mother’s trump the fetus’? I suggest that it’s always the mother trumping the fetus, because she’s the host; without her, the fetus cannot survive without technological intervention. As the host, she has to have the right to do what she wants with that fetus until it is an independent biological entity and can exist without full-time reliance on the mother’s system.
Why are we men making the laws on this anyway? This is one decision we will never have to make, because we can’t get pregnant. It’s interesting that men make these laws.
Having said all that, I’m glad my wife didn’t abort our son and daughter.
And by the way, if you’re making more than $250K per year and whining about Obama’s tax plan, where was your whining when you got all those tax breaks over the last six years? I’ll bet I work just as hard as you do, but I don’t mind paying more in taxes if the money will go to be better schooling, free healthcare for everyone, or shoring up Social Security. If it’s just going to go to optional wars, defense contractors, or to pay for the CDOs of greedy financial firms, then yeah, I object.
So, let me create the world of a conservative as YOU both see it:
1. All gays must DIE.
2. Blacks should be slaves.
3. Women should “shut up” and just have babies.
4. All republicans are self entitled rich people and screw the rest.
Wow, fun, liberal world you all live in.
I actually have gay and bisexual friends; if they find love, then THAT is a blessing. My two biggest clients are a gay and lesbian couple and I have spent countless hours with them counseling them on ways to benefit from changes in laws, and how to utilize estate planning mechanisms to make sure they are fully involved with one another’s lives, from LOVE to death.
I live in a world of ethnic diversity, and jonson and Mr. K. could attest that my marriage is mixed. I love diversity, and challenge the world to love, regardless of race or creed. I am and “inclusive” personality, and would love racial harmony.
6 years ago I made about 35k a year as a trainee with Morgan Stanley. Before that, I made less in the retail industry, selling shoes, clothes, etc… One day I made the decision to change careers (the beauty of this country is that we ALL have the opportunity to make a better life), now, after 70 hour work weeks, and education and training coming OUT of my pocket, I have been blessed to be a future VICTIM of the Obama tax plan.
Gotta love it.
It just dawned on me that I, for some strange reason, have found myself feeling as if I needed to defend and explain myself to people like Chuck.
My mistake, and my COMPLETE waste of time.
I thought about getting all philosophical, but I don’t really want Jonson to lock this blog entry. Maybe The Missus won’t let him. 🙂
However, since I am inherently AGAINST any religious fundamentalism, although not a extreme lefty, I have to say that Mr. Nelson, although allowed his opinion, beliefs and standards (I would not deny someone this, regardless of my possible distaste for a position or stance) has proven one of the issues that give people the knee-jerk reactions.
This is not an attack, Nelson, I would like to simply point out that although there are a large number of people who would rather that they be allowed to make a choice, informed or not (abortion, definition of marriage etc), the typical right-winged philosophy is to dictate, not to empower. There is nothing that a gay couple can do to make my marriage not count. I want no part in deciding whether a mother-to-be should or should not carry and deliver a newborn. I do not live in fear, so I cannot subscribe to the fight-or-flight doctrine of the RR.
This is of course just my humble opinion. I mean no disrespect in what I have said.
Self-exploration is never a waste of time, Nelson. You have gone half way there on the issue of equality for same-sex couples; you recognize there love is every bit as valuable as a hetero husband and wife, but you just haven’t addressed why the law should treat the gays differently (and with discrimination). I suppose you can reconcile these contradictions, but you’ve just been letting the suspense build. Here’s your moment. Have at it, Hoss.
I am not requesting anyone here “explain” themselves, and I officially have been advised to explain MYSELF over and over again.
It is apparent to you, Chuck, that anyone who is conservative is a “far-right” conservative, and that any views towards the middle do not exist.
I no longer feel I need to defend my views, because, really….would it make a difference to your day?
Ho-hom, this train has finally come to station in borings-ville. Its been a jolly good time exchanging e-missives with you, Nelson.
Jonson, how about some pictures of rabid bears?
Margaret Cho has something relevant to say(http://www.margaretcho.com/blog/2008/09/17/im-a-christian-you-fuckers.html):
“Don’t fucking question my Christianity you fucking idiot assholes. If you continue to have a problem, then talk to God about it, not me, you fucking racist homophobic misogynist fake Christian shitheads. God thinks it is funny that I swear so much. He said I could use his name in vain or whatever. He just wants me to use it. He loves me. So fuck you. And I guess he loves you too. Even though you are fake Christian assholes. If you were truly Christians, you would let gays get married, and send them fucking presents from Bed Bath and Beyond!
If you truly believed in Jesus, you would try to be like him and love us, fags and dykes and feminists all. God bless you, even you. You fucking fuckers.”
My wife, as well as Cho, are both Korean, and their fathers were friends years ago. My wife’s family would stay with the Cho’s when they would visit San Francisco, and my wife shared a bed with Margaret. Hmmmm. Tabloid stuff.
I don’t know if she had quite a potty mouth back then.
May I suggest a Chuck vs. Mr. Nelson blog? One where you both are administrators and take turns offering up a topic to debate and then trading-off on the jabs. You wouldn’t have to worry about getting in the last word then – jonson couldn’t cut you off and we could all get back to monitoring his United Nations of Spam and crazy trips to the Salton Sea.
Oh, I would pay for that in a second..assuming I have any money left once the depression begins.
Is this where the liberals begin to blame the crisis on the administration as well?
That is an argument I am willing to have ANY day. AND if anyone ACTUALLY believes that either party is responsible is foolish. The crisis is global, and there is PLENTY of blame to go around.
Whoa, hold on there, nobody said anything about blaming the Bush Administration for this.
But as you brought it up..
The meltdown and resulting emergency occurred in large part due to SEC regulatory exemptions given to five firms over the last four years (Bear Stearns, Lehman, Merrill, Goldman, and Morgan Stanley). Normally, these firms would have been required to keep debt to net capital ratios of 12 to 1 just like everybody else, but their exemptions allowed them ratchet that leverage up to 30 to 1 or 40 to 1.
That leverage resulted in the massive debt that the U.S. tax payer will now have to shoulder over the next century.
That’s right, Bush’s SEC is in large part responsible for the collapse. Not that I’m putting all of this on Secretary Cox, he hasn’t even been on the job the whole time, but it was the Bush Administration who carries the largest burden on this.
The Bush Administration should have seen that the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act passed under Clinton was a ticking time bomb and done something about it. But they did nothing. Oops.
Why do we have laws against bank robbery? Because if we didn’t, some unscrupulous types would rob banks because there would be no punishment. Bank robberies would go up. If you agree with that logic, then you have to be for government regulation of industry. I don’t blame industry, industry is supposed to be avaricious and act like scumbags. Regulation is supposed to rein them in. We’re seeing what happens when you deregulate. We end up footing the bill for bad corporate decisions and investments.
I’m sorry? Macsimcon? And what may I ask which industry YOU work in for a living?
Yes, the BUSH admin should have seen it coming, and the Democratic Congress should have focused on something other that Impeaching the president.
As I said, anyone with and objective point of view, i would be happy to participate in that conversation.
People in the financial industry, feel free to chime in.
What total douchebaggery, Nelson. Rather than respond to Macsimcon’s points, you ask for his credentials? That is almost as good as your “but, but, I have GAY clients!” defense, above.
Oh, I forgot Chuck, I’M the only one who has to defend my position.
All I was getting at is that the blame is equally spread around, and the reasons are more vast than “Bush should have seen this coming”.
Sadly, history will never get a chance to record how long this useless conversation would continue.
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